| ismak2 | a question: every user of kamikza has his own list, or is there a common list? |
|---|---|
| ismak2 | os spamikaze, sorry |
| jeffpc | Do you think that ISPs will implement spamikaze in the first place? You said it yourself, it will anoy people at first.. |
| mjt | even with a "sufficiently" large number of such lists/systems running, it will be still very easy for spammers - for those "who cares" about their deliveries - to keep those lists clean from the IP addresses used in a given spam run... just remove automatically all the IPs in use periodically from ALL such lists and voila... It's not difficult at all to find all the spamikaze lists in use, or most important ones at least. |
| hans | mjt: we will try to prevent that by using a system where people will have to enter a random number given in a picture (or a simular solution) |
| mjt | heh.. that should work... |
| hans | mjt: not implemented yet b.t.w. |
| mjt | there's a question... ;) |
| riel | ask away |
| jeffpc | ok |
| jeffpc | Why should an ISP use spamikaze instead of just seting up authentication on SMTP |
| mjt | looking at the spamcop example: it's annoying for users. Some dialap'er sent out spam via ISP's mailhub, and that mailhub gets listed. Ugh. Ok, spamikaze allows to remove an IP to everyone. But a single dialup spammer will annoy all the users. for a large ISP that's nearly unavoidable. |
| hans | mjt: it will be less annoying then some isp's use now, dailups are blocked anyhow (freshmeat for example) |
| mjt | the situation is much worse with current pile of proxies/trojans used to send spam via that same ISP's mailhub |
| mjt | but that all is about... how to FORCE an ISP to do SOMETHING with a problem in their network... |
| jeffpc | True, it's all for one or nothing... (SMTP Auth) |
| Warmelink | For some people it is easier to decode a picture than to read them (blind people come to mind). njabl.org uses an (exponetially) increasing time for delisting. Should that work too, in your opinion? |
| weaah | Is there an URL to download Riel speech? |
| ismak2 | is the ip import process automated by spamikaze? |
| hans | Warmelink: some of the visually impaired people have keyboards that will be able to decode a picture, we know people that would be able to test it for us |
| ismak2 | if i want to import your list, or your new ips of your list, may i have to do this bay hand? |
| mjt | Riel, you didn't that extra clean: an IP listed in spamikaze DB may be removed by ANYONE, at ANY TIME. It's easy to add an IP (spam to a spamtrap). And it's easy to remove it and resend rejected email. |
| Warmelink | hans: if blind users can do it, spammers can do it too. There are more blind people than spammers |
| riel | Warmelink: which means the blind people have way more time to figure it out ;) |
| riel | Warmelink: the idea is to turn the economies of scale around and have it work against the spammers |
| hans | Warmelink: that's why it should be random, we will try to prevent any automated delisting and are very happy for anyone to test and advise it in our next version |
| hans | for example, it could be any combination of chars, ints, etc.. in a range from 1 to 20 |
| Warmelink | Ehmm, spammers will far more often meet spamikaze than blind users. For a spammer, it is a one time investment. On the other hand, the other users of the ISP of the blind user will probably delist the IP address before the blind user |
| hans | Warmelink: there is also a mta version that will allow you to whitelist one email address |
| ismak2 | what type of db is used to store the lists? and what language has been used to program spamikaze? |
| hans | ismak2: the scripts are written mainly in perl, the web scripts in perl and php |
| mjt | ismak2: is that really relevant? ;) |
| ismak2 | mjt: yes, to help in the development ;-) |
| mjt | that's about an idea, not about implementation... but ok. |
| hans | ismak2: the current db is mysql, we will try to support any other database server |
| riel | ismak2: ideally Spamikaze would run on any platform using a number of different databases |
| hans | *nix preferred :-) |
| riel | ismak2: the reason it is perl and php with just mysql now is that we have not had time to implement the others |
| unriel | ok, time to leave the office and go home ;) |
| hans | we welcome people that will send us patches |
| hans | thank you riel |
| unriel | absolutely, I would love it if more people helped with Spamikaze |
| hans | I will stick arround to answer questions when needed |
| unriel | thank you, Hans |
| pipe_ | hello, is there any conference pending? or is "spamikaze" the last conference? |
| hans | pipe_: spamikaze was the last one |
| pipe_ | :-( |