| *** riel is now known as isaac_new |
| *** isaac_new is now known as riel |
| Barbarian |
is there any
paper for this presentation? |
| Barbarian |
or it will
just be handle by IRC? |
| viZard |
handle by
IRC |
| Barbarian |
thanks |
| MJesus |
yes, french
at #ieee riel |
| pask |
hola horape |
| Barbarian |
Sorry to ask
off-topic, but is there any irc log for the preview presentation? |
| riel |
Barbarian:
yes, IRC logs of all presentations will be online |
| sarnold |
not yet; when
they are available, they will be here: http://infosec.uninet.edu/english/des.eng.html |
| Barbarian |
good.. thanks
a lot! |
| HoraPe |
"copyright
is a relatively new thing", Ortega y Gasset -in an article against "pirate"
editors from Chile- said -citing some antropological studies- that intellectual
property existed even prior than physical property |
| Nurf |
mmmmm...hasta
aquí un analisis simple del copy... con un gran acento en lo economico |
| Nurf |
la ciencia
ha sido posble gracias a la difusión... las universidades hacen
investigación, docencia y extención... en este contexto el
copyright es un buen instrumento de riqueza mercantil, pero me queda la
impresión de que su aporte a la divulgación del conociniento
es cercano a cero. |
| vibora |
que es copyright?? |
| MJesus |
the copyright
is increasing in the whole worl.... |
| sarnold |
vibora --
exclusive _temporary_ monopoly on published works |
| MJesus |
Nurf, could
you traslate to English ? |
| Catalan |
where do fair
use rights fit in? |
| vibora |
y porque linux
2.0??? |
| Nurf |
science has
been posble thanks to the diffusion... the universities make investigation,
teaching and extención... in this context copyright is a good instrument
of mercantile wealth, but I have left the impression that its contribution
to the spreading of conociniento is near zero. |
| vibora |
de donde salio
el nombre de copyright??? |
| sarnold |
is microsoft
actually bound by law to release their source code for windows 95 in 90
years? |
| MJesus |
copy = copis
, rght =derechos |
| MJesus |
copy = copia
, right =derechos |
| cronos |
I think the
real issue is about the politics of domination. While the |
| cronos |
poorest countries/people
could benefit greatly from public domain |
| cronos |
items (books/software,
etc) the rich nations (owners of the tools of |
| cronos |
production)
focus on getting more and more richer from the work of others. |
| cronos |
This is want
capitalism is all about, the big one makes $$ from the |
| cronos |
ones that
have now choice but to work from others. |
| arashi |
sarnold, good
idea I hadn't thought of that ... |
| viZard |
that´d
be nice |
| arashi |
it's too bad
we can't really test it. <_< |
| cronos |
The only solution
that i can think to solve this, is to change our own |
| cronos |
consumerism
attitude and support the efforts of the few (Giants), that are |
| cronos |
trying to
balance the riches of the world, much to their own peril. |
| cronos |
Because this
is a tough fight. |
| arashi |
If the source
code itself is copyrighted, I would think the answer has to be yes. |
| jaska |
but i think
that would mean the source code would have to be released? just guessing |
| jaska |
in the first
place. |
| cronos |
jaska it means
that we nned to have a dif attitude about ourself and of the people we
dont know. |
| jaska |
omnipresent
human greed disgusts me. |
| cronos |
jaska you
need to free your self from the chains of mental slavery |
| cronos |
i mena, we |
| cronos |
mean |
| cronos |
the only real
way to fredom is by giving yourself up, that is the path of the few "saints"
that have lived on this erath |
| cronos |
this is not
a new idea, it has been arround for ever |
| cronos |
as old as
history itself |
| cronos |
the problem
is really our attitude |
| cronos |
every dolar
you spend on Micro $oft is a dollar you spent against yourself |
| electr0n |
heh;-) |
| cronos |
that goes
for every mass prodused comercial product |
| electr0n |
that is why
i have never payed for anything thathas microsoft on it |
| electr0n |
cronos: oh
wait! my keyboard is ;-( |
| cronos |
support your
local comuninities |
| sarnold |
.. and a damn
fine keyboard it is, too :) |
| cronos |
what makes
it so special? |
| electr0n |
heh ;-) |
| cronos |
the buttons
you never use? |
| electr0n |
oh no |
| sarnold |
it comes closest
to my hand size, the buttons are reasonably clicky.... :) |
| electr0n |
it isnt like
that, not one of those internet keyboards |
| cronos |
sarnold microsoft
people are clicky by nature : ) |
| electr0n |
it is an ergonamic
keyboard(did I spell that right)? |
| cronos |
ergonomic |
| electr0n |
thanks ;-) |
| cronos |
thank google
: ) |
| electr0n |
yes, me and
google are close friends |
| electr0n |
I wish i could
implement google in my brain ;-) |
| cronos |
you relly
do not want that |
| electr0n |
of coures
not .... |
| electr0n |
cronos: im
sure you have paid for something microsoft, in some way we all have |
| cronos |
electr0n win
3.11 |
| electr0n |
wow, loooong
time ago |
| cronos |
1991 +/- |
| cronos |
before that
i had a rainbow digital PC |
| cronos |
used pascal
there to make my homework |
| electr0n |
I wasn't with
computers back in those days |
| cronos |
DMCA is a
product of Americas Corp. greed |
| cronos |
it has nothing
to do with protecting the general public rights |
| cronos |
the DMCA is
capitalism at it maximun experssion |
| cronos |
no? |
| arashi |
at that point,
I think you've killed the idea of what capitalism was 'supposed to be' |
| cronos |
arashi could
you explain your reasoning? |
| Catalan |
if there's
no competition, there's no capitalism |
| arashi |
right ... |
| cronos |
there is more
true capitalism in mexico that in usa |
| cronos |
anyone can
set a shop in mx with out a ton of permits |
| arashi |
basically,
the DMCA encourages "free competition until we beat you over the head with
a stick" |
| arashi |
cronos, yeah,
what I was thinking ... a lot of what happens in cases like this in the
US isn't "real" capitalism |
| jaska |
dmca is more
like hell come true |
| cronos |
or a democracy |
| deneb |
free competions
still have its drawbacks |
| arashi |
Well, the
US was never technically a democracy either :3 |
| eXeaT |
i supose none
of those laws apply whem razor started in the 80´s the pirate scene |
| deneb |
generally
big companies "eat" small companies |
| eXeaT |
hehe |
| jaska |
exeat: copyright
law certainly did exist. |
| eXeaT |
yah course
always |
| arashi |
but it wasn't
a -criminal- offense in the US at that point |
| * arashi chuckles |
| cronos |
the us is
a Plutocracy, that's it |
| eXeaT |
But Razor
had their way |
| arashi |
my uncle had
this Apple ][e |
| eXeaT |
and still
have it.. |
| arashi |
He had a copy
of this game "autobahn" that opened with a screen "Hacked by THE RAZOR" |
| arashi |
And another
game (I don't remember what) that had a little intro with Paul Allen criticizing
pirates |
| eXeaT |
yah the first
floppy game on the 80s i remenber havin a floppy fill with 500 games |
| eXeaT |
done by razor |
| eXeaT |
and the Class
came thru |
| arashi |
Heh, Disney
seems to have started down that path ... but I'm told menu still works. |
| Catalan |
a lot of lobbying
went into that law |
| cronos |
To create
a world in which life can flourish and prosper we must replace the values
and institutions of capitalism with values and institutions that honor
life, serve |
| cronos |
life's needs,
and restore money to its proper role as servant. |
| deneb |
here we've
a strong copyright law |
| E0x |
entoces para
ti cual es el futuro del software cual ,, crees tu que sera al fin el que
sobreviva en todo este embrollo ? |
| arashi |
deneb, how
strong? |
| * arashi digs up his copy of
the DeCSS song |
| deneb |
yes. The copyright
cannot be violated |
| arashi |
Anything in
the way of "fair use"? :/ |
| * arashi laughs |
| deneb |
arashi: i'm
tired... this's a bullshit |
| cronos |
deneb the
best way to fight 'em is not to buy from them |
| arashi |
I was wondering,
I never got that impression of .it :3 |
| cronos |
and tell your
friends about it |
| eXeaT |
so riel whats
your opinion on the pirate scene on computers that has been going on since
the 80s, and now its being reported as history by www.isonews.com <http://www.isonews.com>
every release of every platform or multimedia element |
| Catalan |
think code
qualifies as free speech now |
| Catalan |
not sure if
that applies to executable |
| * arashi thinks Catalan is correct |
| cronos |
Catalan code
is not speech, in my view |
| Catalan |
not stating
my views - just current law |
| cronos |
laws where? |
| Catalan |
good point
:) U.S. |
| cronos |
ok |
| deneb |
cronos: i
don't understand well this night (too much Python code for me today) |
| cronos |
deneb not
to worry, i find it hard to understand why we are still buying from the
people that ensalve us |
| eXeaT |
reasking:
so riel whats your opinion on the pirate scene on computers that has been
going on since the 80s, and now its being reported as history by www.isonews.com
<http://www.isonews.com> every
release of every platform or multimedia element |
| sarnold |
riel, where
do you think the middle line is? |
| <viZard> riel, does the SSSCA turns the situations
worse ? |
| cronos |
eXeaT there
are many kinds of pirates, some act legally othere do not |
| sarnold |
riel, in other
words, it _is_ easy to copy digital content among DVDs.. the major content
providers _do_ have a point.. I'm just not sure where I draw the line. |
| eXeaT |
all are ilegal |
| xtingray |
question:
Where is the perfect point to define what is free software without programmers
die by hungry? |
| eXeaT |
thats y is
call piracy |
| arashi |
No, it's called
piracy because they run around killing the guards, stealing software, and
raping any women in the building, just like the pirates of yore (?????) |
| cronos |
xtingray that
is a really good point, this is a global issue |
| viZard |
easy pals,
he only have 2 eyes |
| cronos |
xtingray people
there have to eat like every were else |
| E0x |
entoces para
ti cual es el futuro del software cual ,, crees tu que sera al fin el que
sobreviva en todo este embrollo ? |
| cronos |
xtingray the
problem is the economic structure, no one country can change that |
| MJesus |
riel, all
limits are bad, but for many people... if there are not copyright ... where
the author found some money ? |
| cronos |
xtingray the
ones that have tried or are trying gate labeled as communists |
| jaska |
i am so sick
and tired of the world economy that if given chance to push the big red
button, i would commence without hesitation :) |
| cronos |
jaska to kill
is never a good idea |
| cronos |
jaska we need
to evolve as a one world nation |
| cronos |
one life,
one people |
| cronos |
this means
that we need to chane our attitudes towards the poeple that we do not know, |
| cronos |
but in my
view, the world is about conflict |
| cronos |
it will remain
like that for a long time to come |
| cronos |
we ourselves
are the ones that need to grow |
| cronos |
we can not
push our views into othres |
| cronos |
we all grow
at our pace |
| Hoaxter |
riel: and
a lot of movies are so bad that they better stay behind very big closed
doof *sarkasm* |
| viZard |
riel, how
come US Laws seeks beyond US ?? |
| Hoaxter |
s/doof/doors |
| arashi |
viZard, good
question ... :) |
| jaska |
as a side
point, somewhat offtopic, most hollywood movies arent worth watching at
all :) |
| cronos |
arashi when
sep 11 happened, the usa head lines said, this is an atack on the world,
while the resto of the worl published, this is an attack on the usa |
| cronos |
is all in
the eye of the beholder |
| cronos |
they figure
the own the world |
| arashi |
I can't really
disagree with that :) |
| viZard |
riel, what
if I ban US from my server ? |
| sarnold |
riel, sadly,
just filtering the content for US citizens isn't sufficient to protect
the overseas profits of US corporations |
| bugless |
viZard: :) |
| viZard |
riel, what
if I ban US from my server , and my product affects US products, like what
happened to elcomsoft ?? |
| deneb |
it's just
a bit sad that our life is conditionated from US gov. |
| eXeaT |
viZard, if
you state a disclaimer saying this is private and if you are part of a
us gov organization you cant come in.. they dont have a right to go in
and snoop around "legally" |
| * riel hopes somebody else will
ask a question now ;) |
| arashi |
:3 |
| deneb |
riel: and
what happen if i use a proxy to bypass your ban? |
| riel ,entoces para ti cual es el futuro del software
cual ,, crees tu que sera al fin el que sobreviva en todo este embrollo
? |
| smb |
viZard: the
elcomsoft case is a little goofy, because they sold their software from
a web server in chicago (USA), as well. |
| jaska |
lol to riel's
last statement |
| cronos |
it was right
on the point |
| riel |
could somebody
translate E0x's question, please ? |
| deneb |
riel: sound
cool..so i'll loose all my hairs.. |
| Safari |
could E0x
translate it to English? *g* |
| riel |
_anybody_ |
| viZard |
e0x: riel,
for you whats the future of software? what´d be the end? |
| viZard |
how this will
end ?? |
| E0x |
viZard please
traslate my question |
| viZard |
this "battle" |
| xtingray |
Eox ask: what
is the future of software? |
| viZard |
riel, free
software, meaning GPL copyrighted or any free license ? |
| arashi |
... but does
it matter? average people of countries such as the US don't -care- if it
contributes ... :/ |
| arashi |
they'll just
buy "whatever works" or "whatever is easy" or "whatever I'm supposed to
use" |
| eXeaT |
riel, i think
this is already happening we see on most of all the new software the free
version with advertising, and the pay version to get the advs off |
| sarnold |
riel, it sounds
as if you are advocating removing copyright protections for proprietary
software entirely :) |
| viZard |
exeat, free
software, from the meaning of freedom, not price |
| viZard |
sarnold, free
software is also copyrighted |
| eXeaT |
eudora is
now free.. |
| viZard |
can i see
it source code ? |
| viZard |
its |
| bugless |
Eudora is
use-with-no-cost software, not free software |
| viZard |
exeat-, can
i see it source code ? |
| -MJn- Conoces a MJ |
| deneb |
no viZard
: it's free but you have advs while fetching mails |
| arashi |
yaay ... so
the other thing we need then is a sort of marketing campaign for free software
... |
| deneb |
eudora it's
not Free Software (ala GNU) |
| arashi |
It'll take
a bit of image massaging to get over that kind of societal inertia. |
| * arashi supposes he should've
been more specific, just because something really -is- a good, easy tool,
etc doesn't mean it'll be perceived as the best solution :/ |
| smb |
riel: do you
think copyright laws for software should be changed so that when the copyright
expires, the _source code_ should go into the public domain as well? |
| ks |
riel are all
the people ready to the concept off "free"(dom) software, i see a lot of
conformism whit the actual system |
| deneb |
riel: is it
GPL really applicabile? How can I avoid that someone steals my software? |
| deneb |
applicabile
=usable in all world |
| cronos |
deneb as long
as there is an I and mine, there will be laws like the one he's talking
about, cant say that i haver reached that point |
| viZard |
riel, is the
copyright same in all its terms in every country ? |
| eXeaT |
riel, i supose
in china the GPL doesnt work either since they show pirate movies on the
theaters "screeners" as the same time they are being showed in us.. and
are being sell in the street... do u know anythin about this? |
| jaska |
(wto is one
of the things that should be abolished :) |
| eXeaT |
haha so ironic,
all there japan anim are us copyright on all other territories |
| ks |
riel are all
the people ready to the concept off "free"(dom) software, i see a lot of
conformism whit the actual system |
| xtingray |
what you define
as the current system? |
| arashi |
Heh, that's
the one major problem I see with democracy. It absolutely hinges on an
informed populace to work as intended, but most people just don't consider
it worth their time to -be- informed. |
| ks |
taht is my
point, how do i make a revolution whit a few |
| cdub_ |
nice lecture
riel, thanks! ;-) |
| deneb |
grazie riel...and
good work! |
| MJesus |
riel have
you read about the legislative proposition, forbiden the use of propietary
soft in public offices of Peru ? |
| smb |
riel: one
other point to make -- the DMCA prevents publication of research that has
applications outside of copyright protection. Felten's SDMI paper used
some audio techniques that had a high likelyhood of being used in geology,
but further research is prevented without the approval of the SDMI people. |
| cronos |
perl -e 'for
(;;){ print(" thanks rik "); };' |
|
|
